【世事關心】香港反送中示威者的心聲:不自由 毋寧死!

【新唐人北京時間2019年09月25日訊】9月17日,一些香港民主人士在國會山作證。

On September 17, Hong Kong activists testified on Capitol Hill. 

黃之鋒(香港眾志秘書長):「現在我認為一國兩制已經崩潰。」

Joshua:“ I would describe now is the collapse of one country two systems.”

何韻詩(香港本土獨立歌手及社運人士):「現在年輕就是罪。」

Dennis Ho: “People are arrested for being young.” 

譚競嫦(中國人權執行主任):「我們只要看一看西藏、新疆,就知道中共(說的自治)是什麼含義了。 沒有自己的文化、語言、歷史、沒有信仰或修煉的權利。」

Sharon Hom: “We only need to look at Tibet and Xinjiang for what the Communist Party means by [autonomy]. It means no culture, no language, no history and no right to practice your belief or faith.” 

代表團向國會表達的最大心願是通過《香港人權與民主法案》

The delegation’s core message to Congress is to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「如果美國撤銷這一地位,即特別地位,香港將變成僅僅是另一個城市,就像中國大陸的某一個城市一樣。 您想過這件事情嗎?」

Simone: “If the US revoke the status, the special status, Hong Kong will be just another city like any other city in mainland China. Have you thought of that?” 

譚競嫦(中國人權執行主任):「有時你要有所追求,就必須有所犧牲。」

Sunny Cheung: Sometimes you fight for something you have to sacrifice something. ” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):隨著中共接管中國即將70周年,有可能在香港宣佈實施緊急狀態法案,香港人最想從自由世界中得到的是什麼呢? 為了自由,他們願意作出犧牲嗎? 今天,我分享了自己的一些觀察,以及對這場運動些核心成員的採訪。

With the looming 70th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party’s takeover of China, and the possibility of declaring emergency rule in Hong Kong, what do the Hong Kong people most want from the free world? And what are they willing to sacrifice for their freedom? Today I share my observations and interviews with some core members of this movement.  

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao): 我是蕭茗,您現在收看的是《世事關心》節目。

Simone: I am Simone Gao, and you are watching Zooming In. 

9月17日,一群香港反送中民主人士呼籲美國國會議員,最大限度的向中共領導層施壓,以支持他們的鬥爭。

On September 17, a group of Hong Kong pro-democracy activists appealed to U.S. lawmakers to support their fight by exerting maximum pressure on Chinese Communist Party leadership.  They claimed the One Country Two Systems is basically dead. 

馬可·盧比奧(美國聯邦參議員/國會及行政部門中國問題委員會主席):「我向所有與會者提出的問題是:『你們如何看待今天香港自治的現狀?』」

Marco Rubio: “ So my question to all the panelists is: How would you describe the state of Hong Kong autonomy today?” 

黃之鋒(香港眾志秘書長):「 在上次美國國會聽證會上,我已經強烈地意識到:一國兩制如何會受到侵蝕,最終淪為一個國家,一個半體制。 但是,最近由香港政府和北京政府引發的這場政治危機,已經將香港這樣一個國際都市,變成一個更加暴力、甚至充滿白色恐怖的警察國家。 現在我認為一國兩制已經崩潰。而且根據現行的憲法框架,香港也面臨著死亡。我認為,已經到了尋求兩黨的支持的時候了,理由也具備了。 支持香港自治 不應成為一個左或右的問題,而應是一個對或錯的問題。」

Joshua Wong:  “During the last congressional hearing, I strongly aware how one country two system eroded to be one country, one and a half system. But the recent political crisis by how Hong Kong and Beijing government turns such a global city into the police state with more violence and even white terror. I would describe now is the collapse of one country two system. And also we are facing the death under (of) the current constitutional framework. And I think now is also the time and the reason which we hope to seek for bipartisan support. Support Hong Kong separatization should not be the matter of left or right issue, but a matter of right or wrong.” 

何韻詩(香港本土獨立歌手及社運人士): 「因此,從一個更大的文化背景、社會背景來講,人們非常害怕說出自己內心的想法。這是各個公司和政府機構向員工或人民施壓的結果,基本上讓他們閉嘴。 因此,這一點對經濟影響巨大,因為如果失去這種言論自由,經濟就很難發展,社會就很難興盛。 香港已經有點類似於一個『中國城市』了。人們出於對自身安全的擔心,不敢公開說出自己的政治立場。」

Denise Ho: “ on a more cultural and social context, there is an immense fear among the people, to speak their minds, which is a result of how the businesses and the government institutions, they have put pressure onto their employees or the people to keep their mouth shut, basically. And so this has a huge impact on the economy because without this freedom of speech, it’s very difficult for the economy and also the society to thrive. Because in the sense we are already in somewhat of a “China city" situation where people would fear for their safety if they spoke out about their political stance. ” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「 去年美中經濟與安全審查委員會(USCC)發佈了一份報告,稱香港正變得越來越像中國任何一個其它城市。 這意味著我們的自治已經消失。 實際上,美中經濟與安全審查委員會甚至還發佈了一份報告,稱香港的自治已經處於危險之中。 在英國,當我遇到一些政界人士的時候,我都會告訴他們:中國政府已經違反了中英聯合聲明。 這就是為什麼我說香港自治已死的原因。 這就是為什麼我們要敦促美國政府和自由世界的其它國家在很多方面幫助香港,例如通過《人權與民主法案》。 你們可以在其它國家通過《全球馬格尼茨基人權問責法》,敦促貴國的盟友通過這些法案,讓自由世界的其它國家與香港站在一起。」

Sunny Cheung: “Last year the USCC published a report, (regarding) concerns that Hong Kong is becoming more like any other Chinese city. And that means that our autonomy is already gone. And actually even the USCC has issued a report to claim that the autonomy of Hong Kong is already in danger. In UK when I met some politicians, I would tell them that the Chinese government already breached the Sino-British, joint declaration. And that’s why I would say the autonomy of Hong Kong is already dead. And that’s why we urge the US governments and other free world countries to try to help with Hong Kong with many…like passing the Human Rights and Democracy Act. And you can pass the Global Magnitsky in other countries, and urge your allies to pass them, to let other free world countries to stand with Hong Kong. ” 

譚競嫦(中國人權執行主任): 「自治,(要理解)這個詞對中共意味著什麼,我們只要看一看西藏、新疆這些所謂的自治區就明白了。自治就意味著:不再擁有自己的文化,自己的語言,自己的歷史,以所謂的宗教中國化的名義,剝奪信仰或修煉的權利。這是自相矛盾的。他們對自治的理解甚至延伸到前世。你知道,這個黨目前正在設法控制輪回轉世。因此他們也試圖給人強加一個『中國人』的概念。什麼樣的中國人呢?哦,就是習近平『中國夢』之下的中國人的概念,中國人的含義。但是,從歷史、語言和文化上來講,香港人是非常複雜的。我認為香港民眾在討論著『什麼是香港人』。香港人是不是也算中國人。是這個意思嗎?我認為,『香港人』意味著自由,意味著以民主的方式做出決定的權利,意味著我們今天所擁有的。這與共產黨的DNA及其自治的概念是絕對對立的,因為共產黨統治下不存在自治。」

Sharon Hom: “Autonomy, (to understand) what it means for the Communist Party is we only need to look at the so-called autonomous regions in Tibet and Xinjiang. What autonomy means is: no cultural, no language, no history, no right to believe or practice your faith under the sinicization of religion, which is an oxymoron. And their understanding of autonomy even extends to past life. As you know, the party is trying to now control reincarnation. So they also tried to impose a notion of Chinese-ness. What kind of Chinese-ness? Well, Xi Jinping’s notion of Chinese-ness under the Chinese dream and what is Chinese. But Hong Kongers are quite complex as a history and language and culture. And I think Hong Kongers are going, and are negotiating what it means to be a Hong Konger. Whether it includes being a Chinese. Does it mean that? And I think that’s what it means to be free, the right to decide and determine in this complex way, what does it mean to be who we are. And that is absolutely antithetical to the DNA of the communist party and its notion of autonomy because it doesn’t exist.” 

他們向美國國會及行政當局中國委員會提出的核心要求是:希望美國國會通過《2019香港人權與民主法案》。

Their core demand presented before the Congressional-Executive Commission on China is for the US congress to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019.

黃之鋒(香港眾志秘書長):「聯席主席盧比奧最近在文章中寫道:根據美國法律,香港的特殊地位取決於其是否能維持單獨關稅區地位。北京不能一方面利用香港在世界上的地位來獲取經濟利益,一方面又消除我們的社會政治特性,不能兩頭都占。這是《香港人權與民主法案》得到香港公民社會廣泛支持的最重要的原因。 」

Joshua Wong: “Co-Chairman Rubio is also right for recently writing thatHong Kong’s special status, under American law, depends on the city being treated as a separate customs area’, Beijing shouldn’t have it both ways, reaping all the economic benefits of Hong Kong’s standing in the world while eradicating our socio-political identity. This is the most important reason why the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act enjoys the broad support of Hong Kong’s civil society, a point which I want every member of Congress to take note. ” 

對這些香港人來說,他們推動這項立法的原因很簡單:除此之外,別無它法。 過去三個半月以來,香港政府和真正掌握控制權的中共領導層一直無視數百萬香港人的聲音。

To these Hongkongers, the reason they’re pushing for this legislation is simply that nothing else has worked. The Hong Kong government and the Communist Party leadership, which is really in control, has ignored the voice of millions of Hong Kong people for the past three and-a-half months. 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「美國政府應該幫助香港人民獲得決定他們未來的權力。因此,我們敦促美國國會通過《香港人權與民主法案》,將目前的制裁名單擴大到所有侵犯我們人權的人。美國政府不應該承認香港的特殊地位。美國必須發出一個強烈的信號,如果香港失去自治權,美國應取消這一特殊地位,以便向中國施壓。否則,中國政府將會繼續利用香港作為一個自治區的國際社會地位,但掏空我們的自由價值觀。有了這樣一個明確的法案,這也表明美國將不再容忍極權主義。香港人民將竭盡全力,采取一切可能的措施來為實現民主和自由而奮鬥。」

Sunny Cheung: “The US government should help HK people to have the right to decide our future. Therefore, we urge the US Congress to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, to expand the current sanction list to all individuals who infringe our human rights. The US government should not acknowledge the special status of Hong Kong. The US must send a strong signal that this special status should be cancelled if HK lost its autonomy in order to put pressure on China. Otherwise, China will keep taking advantage of Hong Kong as an international society but hollow out our liberal values. With such an assertive policy, it’s demonstrated that America will no longer tolerate totalitarianism. Hong Kong people will take every step with the last inch of our effort to fight for democracy and freedom.”

美國聽證會後,北京迅速做出了回應。 外交部發言人耿爽警告美國不得支持示威者。

Beijing responded swiftly after the hearing. Foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang warned against the U.S. effort to back the protestors.  

耿爽:「同時,我們需要警告在外國支持下試圖擾亂香港、從事反華活動的某些人,他們的一切努力都是徒勞的,注定要失敗的。」

“At the same time, we have to warn certain people, who engage in anti-China activities in order to disrupt Hong Kong with foreign support, that all their efforts are futile and destined to fail.”  

週三,香港政府還發表一項聲明,為員警對抗議活動的處置進行辯護, 並稱反送中活動人士的指控「系嚴重事件,且毫無事實根據。

The Hong Kong government also issued a statement on Wednesday defending the police handling of the protest as being restrained and rejecting the activists’ allegations as “serious and unfounded”. 

參加聽證會的香港民主人士在紐約和華盛頓特區安排的行程非常緊湊,其中包括受邀參加由共產主義受難者紀念基金會舉辦的香港人權論壇,以及全球臺灣研究所舉辦的電影放映會。

The group had a packed schedule touring New York and Washington DC, including an invitation to the Hong Kong Human Rights Forum organized by the Victims of Communism Foundation and an invitation to a film screening by the Global Taiwan Institute. 

接下來是對香港學生領袖張崑陽的採訪。

Coming up, an interview with Hong Kong student leader Sunny Cheung. 

張崑陽是香港大專學界國際事務代表團的發言人。 他是9月17日在美國國會及行政當局中國委員會作證的證人之一。在他訪問華盛頓期間,我有機會對他進行了採訪。

Sunny Cheung is the spokesperson of the Hong Kong Higher Education International Affairs Delegation. He was one of the witnesses that testified in front of the Congressional-Executive China Committee on September 17. I had the opportunity to interview him during his trip to Washington DC.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「 非常感謝!對這次訪問而言,你們所有人都在強調你們希望美國政府通過《香港人權與民主法案》。 我想知道法案中的哪一部分對您來說最為重要?」

Simone:“ All right. Thank you so much. So for this trip, all of you emphasized that you want the US government to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. I want to know which part of the act is most important to you?”

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我認為,制裁名單實際上為美國政府提供了一個可以監督香港局勢的、非常有效的機制。 尤其我們知道香港許多官員確實嚴重破壞了、侵犯了香港的人權狀況,這種情況逐漸演變成香港的這場人道主義危機。 而且根據該法案,如果美國政府將制裁作為一種機制,將會非常有效讓那些侵犯人權的官員承擔責任,對香港人來說這非常令人鼓舞。」

Sunny:“I think the sanction list actually provides a very effective mechanism to the US government (who can then) try to monitor the situation in Hong Kong. Especially, we know that many Hong Kong officials, they really grossly undermine and violate the human rights situation in Hong Kong and this gradually becomes a humanitarian crisis in Hong Kong. And by this bill, if the US government can use this sanction as a mechanism to try to hold them accountable it will be very effective and very encouraging for Hong Kong people.”

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「該法案中還有一個非常有爭議的部分,就是要求美國的國務院、國務卿每年審查香港的狀況。 因此,如果香港未能通過審核,其特殊地位則可能被撤銷。 對此您有何想法?」

Simone:   There is also a very controversial part of this bill and it is the one that requires the State Department, the Secretary of State to review the status of Hong Kong every year. So if Hong Kong doesn’t pass the review the special status might be revoked. So what is your thinking of that? 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我明確認為,如果中國政府繼續操控香港的特殊地位,我認為美國政府應積極考慮停止承認香港的特殊地位。因為他們只有這樣做,才能對中國政府施加巨大的壓力。 我們知道,過去幾年來中國政府試圖操縱香港,將其作為世界自由體系留的一個後門,與伊朗、朝鮮進行許多秘密的非法交易,這顯然違反了聯合國許多武器禁運協議。 當中國利用香港與伊朗交易時,這同樣也違反了美國國務院的禁令,損害了美國人的利益。因為如此,我們有理由關注美國國務院的下一步行動。 他們是否會通過廢除香港的特殊地位,來阻止中國利用香港來傷害自由世界各國。」

Sunny: “I definitely think if the special status of Hong Kong is continually manipulated by the Chinese government, I think the US government should actively consider to abolish their recognition of our Hong Kong special status. Because only if they do so and then actually they can try to give a very immense pressure on the Chinese government. We know that in previous years, the Chinese government tried to manipulate Hong Kong as the back door of the world liberal system, to do many illegal trading under the table with Iran and North Korea and this trading apparently violates many weapon embargoes under the United Nations. And when China uses Hong Kong to do trade with Iran, this also violates the order from the Department of State in the US and this undermines and harms the interest of the Americans. That’s why actually, it makes sense to see that if the Department of State in the United States, they really considered to abolish the recognition of Hong Kong Special Status in order to stop China from using Hong Kong to harm the free world countries.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「 有一件事情我一直想瞭解你們的真實感受。 這對中共來說是一個重大的打擊,但同時也會讓香港很受傷。對吧?你們抗爭的目的,不就是為了香港的利益嗎?自由等等這類的東西? 如果美國撤銷這一地位,即特別地位,香港將變成僅僅是個普通城市,就像中國大陸的某個城市一樣。 您想過這件事情嗎?」

Simone:   “There’s one part I have always been, you know, just wanting to know your real feelings about this. It is a big blow to the communist party but it will also hurt Hong Kong very much, right? Isn’t this what you have fought for? Freedom and stuff? If the US revokes the status, the special status, Hong Kong will be just another city,Like another city in mainland China. Have you thought of that?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「有時你要有所追求,就必須有所犧牲。 我的意思是,說白了,我們的目標是不是僅僅局限於為了香港的自由而抗爭呢。 我們的抗爭也是為了要在全中國伸張正義。 我們願意為全球遏制中國而戰,努力與中國對抗。如果這是我們的最終目標,那麼我認為,為了打擊中國政府,香港人敦促世界,同時也敦促美國政府撤銷香港的特殊地位,就很合情合理了。」

Sunny: “Sometimes you fight for something you have to sacrifice something. I mean after all, if our aim is not just limited to fighting for the freedom in Hong Kong. We also fight for justice in China. We are willing to fight for a very global containment. Try to against China. If this is the ultimate aim for us and then I thinks its very reasonable for Hong Kong people to urge the world and also to urge the US government to abolish the status of Hong Kong in order to harm the Chinese government.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「因此,換句話說,所有香港人都充分明白《人權與民主法案》可能導致的種種後果。如果通過這樣一個法案,就可能意味著香港的特殊地位不保。對此你們一清二楚。但你們依然支持。」

Simone:   “So, in other words, all the Hong Kong people are fully aware of the consequences of this Human Rights and Democracy Act. Passing this act may mean the Hong Kong Special Status may be revoked. You are fully aware of that. And you support it.” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我想提一下,如果香港政府試圖侵犯人權,當然,這些人都會受到制裁。 而且我認為個人受到制裁,並不意味著香港的整個特殊地位將會被撤銷。 我想指出的是:如果中國政府試圖操控香港,如果從長遠來看這種情況日益惡化,那就不僅僅是通過《人權與民主法案》的問題了,而是要廢除1992年《香港政策法》的問題了。 只有這樣做,實際上,這樣一來確實可以震懾香港政府和中國政府。」

Sunny: “I want to mention that if the Hong Kong government tries to violate human rights, of course, those individuals will be sanctioned. And I think individuals being sanctioned does not mean that the whole Special Status of Hong Kong will be revoked. What I want to point out is that if the Chinese Government try to manipulate Hong Kong and if this situation worsens in the long run, and its not just about passing the Human Rights and Democracy Act, it’s about abolishing the Hong Kong policy act in 1992. Only by doing so…actually this can really frighten the Hong Kong and Chinese government.”

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「比如這一法案剛剛啟動的時候,當時您的想法是什麼?」

Simone: “ Changed, like at first when this bill was introduced what were your thoughts?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我的意思是說香港發生的事,之前誰也沒有料到。我是說幾個月前,有100萬人上街遊行,再後來,我們知道,100萬人上街,那場面相當壯觀!但是大家都沒有想到這場運動會持續這麼長的時間。這一次香港人真的非常堅定,誰也沒想到。但是我們知道,美國政府推出這項法案時機可謂恰到好處,只有通過這項法案,才能給香港政府施加壓力。您看,昨天美國國會及行政當局中國委員會聽證會結束後,我在那兒發了言,黃之鋒發了言,甚至何韻詩也發了言。然後,香港政府,我想他們是今天早上,立即發表了一份聲明,試圖表明我們對香港政府的指控是不正確的,而且表明(香港政府)仍然在維護香港人的政治權利。看明白了吧。我的意思是我們在美國國會聽證會上講了話,實際上這讓香港政府感到害怕。他們真的很害怕會通過(這項法案)。這說明我們做對了。」

Sunny: “ I mean, no one could have anticipated what happened in Hong Kong. I mean a few months ago when there was 1 million people marching on the street and then…We know 1 million people marching on the street is quite impressive, but we didn’t anticipate the movement will continue for so long. And this time Hong Kong people are really quite determined and no one can possibly anticipate it. But we know that it’s the right timing for the American government to have this bill and only with this bill, this can pressurize the Hong Kong government. You can see that after yesterday’s hearing in the CECC, I spoke there and Joshua spoke there and even Denise Ho spoke there. And then the Hong Kong government, I think this morning they immediately, issued a statement, try to say that our accusation against the Hong Kong government is not correct, (and that the) the Hong Kong government still protects the political rights of Hong Kong individuals. You can see that. I mean we spoke in a US Congress hearing. Actually that scares the Hong Kong government. They’re really scared that the (bill) will be passed and that means we are doing the right thing.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「關於《香港人權與民主法案》,我知道你們所有的人都支持。 你們想要美國國會通過這個法案。 您能代表香港上街的200萬民眾嗎? 您認為他們也支持這一法案嗎?」

Simone:“ Regarding the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, I know all of you support it. You want the US Congress to pass it. Can you represent the 2 million people on the Hong Kong Street? Do you think they support this as well?”  

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「這是一場沒有領導人的運動,所以我無法表上街的200萬民眾。 但是在我看來,而且我相信香港確實有很多人支持美國政府,或者所有自由世界的國家採取行動,來支持香港並試圖遏制中國政府。 我認為這也是共識。 無論是香港政府,還是香港人民,真的都希望能夠獲得自由世界國家的支持,這是一個共識。我們希望得到自由世界國家的支持。」

Sunny:  This is a leaderless movement so I cannot represent two million people on the street. But what I believe…and I believe that Hong Kong do have a lot of people that supports the US government, or all the free world countries to do something to support Hong Kong and try to contain the Chinese government. And I also think that this is a consensus. This is a consensus that Hong Kong government or Hong Kong people do want the support from the free world countries. This is a consensus. We want the support from the free world countries. 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「《香港人權與民主法案》之後,下一步就是《香港政策法》。 那麼,您像剛才您所說,您甚至支持撤銷該法案,是嗎?」

Simone: “ Next step after the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, the next step is Hong Kong Policy Act. So you Just now you said, you even support that act to be revoked, right?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我是說,如果中國政府繼續操控香港的話,我想,實際上,昨天我在會上發言時,我也提到了,如果中國政府繼續操控香港,美國政府應立即撤銷《香港政策法案》,制裁整個香港實體,意在給中國政府施壓。」

Sunny:“I mean if the Chinese government, they keep continuing to manipulate Hong Kong and I think… Actually yesterday when I spoke in the CECC, my speech also mentioned that if the Chinese government continues to manipulate Hong Kong, the US government should immediately abolish the Hong Kong Policy Act to try to sanction the whole Hong Kong entity in order to pressurize the Chinese government.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「 在中共仍統治中國大陸的情況下,您認為香港會獲得真正的自由嗎? 」

Simone:   “So do you think Hong Kong can obtain true freedom? With the communist party still ruling mainland China?”

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「沒有什麼不可能, 誰也沒有料到蘇聯會解體, 誰也沒有料到第一次世界大戰會發生。這些政治,我是說我們人類的歷史,我們抗爭,我們征服, 我們堅持自己今天在做的,然後奇跡可能就會發生。」

Sunny:  Nothing is impossible. I mean, no one can anticipate the collapse of Soviet Union. No one could possibly expect the occurrence of World War 1. These politics, I mean our human history, we fight, we conquer. We insist for what we are doing and maybe then miracles will happen.”

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「 您認為香港政府真的會宣佈香港處於緊急狀態嗎?有多大的可能性?」

Simone:   “Do you think the Hong Kong government will really declare a state of emergency in Hong Kong? How big of a possibility is there?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):“如果我理解正確的話, 緊急狀態法淩駕於香港政府之上,可以幹很多事情。 我指包括關閉機場;關閉所有公共通訊,他們想關閉多長時間,就關閉多長時間。 這就是為什麼這部法律,這部緊急狀態法的確與殖民地時期或古代的戒嚴令非常相似的原因。在獨裁國家中此類事情一再發生。 如果香港政府,如果他們不能真正的部署解放軍,那麼他們很有可能在香港社會實施《緊急狀態法》,以控制我們。”

Sunny: “If I am correct, actually the emergency law overrides the Hong Kong government to do many things. I mean including, trying to shut down the airport, try to shut down all the public communication as long as they wish. And that’s why this law, this emergency law indeed is something very similar to those colonial or ancient martial law, which happen again and again in those autocratic countries. If Hong Kong government, if they cannot really deploy PLA then it’s very likely for them to use the Emergency Law to implement in Hong Kong society to get the control over us.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):“所以您認為,他們很可能這麼幹?”

Simone:   “So you think it’s very likely that they will do that?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「是的。因為如果他們真的採用這部法律的話,實際上這倒不意味著他們會充分實施這部法律,但是至少他們仍可以做一些對我們公民社會非常有害的事情。 就像他們可以真的立一部法,禁止人們戴口罩,有緊急狀態法就可以辦成這件事了。」

Sunny:  “Yeah, because if they really apply the law…actually it doesn’t mean that they will…they will fully practice the law but at least they can still do something which is very detrimental to our civil society. Like they can actually legislate a bill about prohibiting people wearing mask and this can be done by the emergency law.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「這個影響會有多大? 我的意思是說,從心理上講,是指某個重要的基準點,如果他們頒佈了緊急狀態法,那麼美國政府就真的會做出什麼舉動,也許撤銷《香港政策法案》嗎? 您認為會達到那個程度嗎?」

Simone:   “How big of an impact is that? I mean psychologically is that some important benchmark that if they issued the emergency law then the US government should really do something, maybe revoke the Hong Kong Policy Act? Do you think that will amount to that degree?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「這取決於我們的需求了。如果我們與美國國會的參議員和眾議員們交流(並進行解釋),我們覺得,如果香港政府真的實施《緊急狀態法》,我想美國國會真的應該廢除《香港政策法》。 這取決於我們告訴他們什麼。 如果我們確實提出這一要求,他們會積極考慮的。」

Sunny: “ It depends on our demand. I mean, if we talked to those senators and congressman in the US Congress (and explained) that we feel like if Hong Kong government really dares to implement the Emergency Law then I think the US congress should really abolish the Hong Kong Policy Act. It depends on what we tell them. If we really making this demand and I think they will actively consider.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「 你們有五個訴求,五個要求,對吧? 你們怎麼個叫法?如果中共繼續統治中國?」

Simone:   “Okay. So last question. I just want to ask you again. So you have five pursuits, five requirements right? How do you call it? Good. Sushio Five requirements, five demands, right? So how likely do you think those five demands will be met if the communist party of China is still ruling?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我們決心很大。 我是說,連蘇聯都會在一天之內解體, 中共為什麼不能對我們讓步?是的,我們相信人民力量。 我們相信人類歷史的遺產。 當開明的思想和民主總是占上風時,當獨裁統治以及恐怖主義經常失敗時,是的,我真心希望這次香港人能得到我們自己應得的東西。 我們試圖改變五年前雨傘運動的結果,那一次我們失敗了, 我們不會再失敗了。」

Sunny: “We are quite determined. I mean, even the Soviet Union could fall within one day. Why communist party could not make a concession to us? Yeah. We believe in people power. We believe in the legacy of our human history. When liberalism and democracy always prevail. When dictatorship and often terrorism always fail. And Yeah. I do hope that Hong Kong People this time can obtain what we deserve. We can try to change the consequences five years ago in the umbrella movement. We failed that time. We won’t fail again.” 

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「 我只是想瞭解香港人民的決心。你知道,我們已經非常仔細地觀察過這一過程了,關注香港人民情況怎麼樣了。在某個時間點,我想兩三個月前吧,也許是一個月前,當時示威運動在逐漸消退。 所以人們就在想:『好了,你們怎麼做,才能使這個示威成為一個長期的事呢。』那麼您如何看待港人的決心? 如果長期示威,你們扛得住嗎?」

Simone:   “Absolutely last question. I just want to know the determination of the Hong Kong people, you know, we have watched this process very closely… Paying attention to how Hong Kong people are performing and stuff. And at some point, I think a couple months ago, maybe a month ago, when the movement the demonstration was dying down a little bit. So people are thinking: “Okay, how do you make things…make this demonstration a long-term thing." So how would you describe the determination of the Hong Kong people? Can you sustain a long-term demonstration?” 

張崑陽(香港大專學界國際事務代表團發言人):「我們已經扛住了。 100天都過去了,我們已經扛住了。 我們已經向世界展示了我們的決心是怎樣的堅定。 抗議活動不會自然消亡。我相信,短期內除非香港政府或中國政府作出真正的、很大的讓步,否則抗議是平息不下去的。」

Sunny:  We already did. After 100 days, we already did. We already demonstrated to the world that we are so determined. And the protest will not die down naturally, In the short term, I believe, unless the government or the Chinese government, they really make a considerable concession. It would not die down. ”

 

End

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Producer:Simone Gao

Writer:Simone Gao

Editors:Fiona Yang, Julian Kuo    

Narrator: Simone Gao

Translation: Cindy  Zhang, John Meng,Linda Du, TungTung, Maureen Mou, Greg Yang, Frank Yue

Transcription: James Battaglini, Jesse Beatty

Special Effects:Harrison Sun

Assistant producer:Bin Tang, Merry Jiang 

Feedback: ssgx@ntdtv.com 

New Tang Dynasty Television

Zooming In

September, 2019 

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