【世事关心】香港反送中示威者的心声:不自由 毋宁死!

【新唐人北京时间2019年09月25日讯】9月17日,一些香港民主人士在国会山作证。

On September 17, Hong Kong activists testified on Capitol Hill. 

黄之锋(香港众志秘书长):“现在我认为一国两制已经崩溃。”

Joshua:“ I would describe now is the collapse of one country two systems.”

何韵诗(香港本土独立歌手及社运人士):“现在年轻就是罪。”

Dennis Ho: “People are arrested for being young.” 

谭竞嫦(中国人权执行主任):“我们只要看一看西藏、新疆,就知道中共(说的自治)是什么含义了。 没有自己的文化、语言、历史、没有信仰或修炼的权利。”

Sharon Hom: “We only need to look at Tibet and Xinjiang for what the Communist Party means by [autonomy]. It means no culture, no language, no history and no right to practice your belief or faith.” 

代表团向国会表达的最大心愿是通过《香港人权与民主法案》

The delegation’s core message to Congress is to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“如果美国撤销这一地位,即特别地位,香港将变成仅仅是另一个城市,就像中国大陆的某一个城市一样。 您想过这件事情吗?”

Simone: “If the US revoke the status, the special status, Hong Kong will be just another city like any other city in mainland China. Have you thought of that?” 

谭竞嫦(中国人权执行主任):“有时你要有所追求,就必须有所牺牲。”

Sunny Cheung: Sometimes you fight for something you have to sacrifice something. ” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):随着中共接管中国即将70周年,有可能在香港宣布实施紧急状态法案,香港人最想从自由世界中得到的是什么呢? 为了自由,他们愿意作出牺牲吗? 今天,我分享了自己的一些观察,以及对这场运动些核心成员的采访。

With the looming 70th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party’s takeover of China, and the possibility of declaring emergency rule in Hong Kong, what do the Hong Kong people most want from the free world? And what are they willing to sacrifice for their freedom? Today I share my observations and interviews with some core members of this movement.  

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao): 我是萧茗,您现在收看的是《世事关心》节目。

Simone: I am Simone Gao, and you are watching Zooming In. 

9月17日,一群香港反送中民主人士呼吁美国国会议员,最大限度的向中共领导层施压,以支持他们的斗争。

On September 17, a group of Hong Kong pro-democracy activists appealed to U.S. lawmakers to support their fight by exerting maximum pressure on Chinese Communist Party leadership.  They claimed the One Country Two Systems is basically dead. 

马可·卢比奥(美国联邦参议员/国会及行政部门中国问题委员会主席):“我向所有与会者提出的问题是:‘你们如何看待今天香港自治的现状?’”

Marco Rubio: “ So my question to all the panelists is: How would you describe the state of Hong Kong autonomy today?” 

黄之锋(香港众志秘书长):“ 在上次美国国会听证会上,我已经强烈地意识到:一国两制如何会受到侵蚀,最终沦为一个国家,一个半体制。 但是,最近由香港政府和北京政府引发的这场政治危机,已经将香港这样一个国际都市,变成一个更加暴力、甚至充满白色恐怖的警察国家。 现在我认为一国两制已经崩溃。而且根据现行的宪法框架,香港也面临着死亡。我认为,已经到了寻求两党的支持的时候了,理由也具备了。 支持香港自治 不应成为一个左或右的问题,而应是一个对或错的问题。”

Joshua Wong:  “During the last congressional hearing, I strongly aware how one country two system eroded to be one country, one and a half system. But the recent political crisis by how Hong Kong and Beijing government turns such a global city into the police state with more violence and even white terror. I would describe now is the collapse of one country two system. And also we are facing the death under (of) the current constitutional framework. And I think now is also the time and the reason which we hope to seek for bipartisan support. Support Hong Kong separatization should not be the matter of left or right issue, but a matter of right or wrong.” 

何韵诗(香港本土独立歌手及社运人士): “因此,从一个更大的文化背景、社会背景来讲,人们非常害怕说出自己内心的想法。这是各个公司和政府机构向员工或人民施压的结果,基本上让他们闭嘴。 因此,这一点对经济影响巨大,因为如果失去这种言论自由,经济就很难发展,社会就很难兴盛。 香港已经有点类似于一个‘中国城市’了。人们出于对自身安全的担心,不敢公开说出自己的政治立场。”

Denise Ho: “ on a more cultural and social context, there is an immense fear among the people, to speak their minds, which is a result of how the businesses and the government institutions, they have put pressure onto their employees or the people to keep their mouth shut, basically. And so this has a huge impact on the economy because without this freedom of speech, it’s very difficult for the economy and also the society to thrive. Because in the sense we are already in somewhat of a “China city" situation where people would fear for their safety if they spoke out about their political stance. ” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“ 去年美中经济与安全审查委员会(USCC)发布了一份报告,称香港正变得越来越像中国任何一个其它城市。 这意味着我们的自治已经消失。 实际上,美中经济与安全审查委员会甚至还发布了一份报告,称香港的自治已经处于危险之中。 在英国,当我遇到一些政界人士的时候,我都会告诉他们:中国政府已经违反了中英联合声明。 这就是为什么我说香港自治已死的原因。 这就是为什么我们要敦促美国政府和自由世界的其它国家在很多方面帮助香港,例如通过《人权与民主法案》。 你们可以在其它国家通过《全球马格尼茨基人权问责法》,敦促贵国的盟友通过这些法案,让自由世界的其它国家与香港站在一起。”

Sunny Cheung: “Last year the USCC published a report, (regarding) concerns that Hong Kong is becoming more like any other Chinese city. And that means that our autonomy is already gone. And actually even the USCC has issued a report to claim that the autonomy of Hong Kong is already in danger. In UK when I met some politicians, I would tell them that the Chinese government already breached the Sino-British, joint declaration. And that’s why I would say the autonomy of Hong Kong is already dead. And that’s why we urge the US governments and other free world countries to try to help with Hong Kong with many…like passing the Human Rights and Democracy Act. And you can pass the Global Magnitsky in other countries, and urge your allies to pass them, to let other free world countries to stand with Hong Kong. ” 

谭竞嫦(中国人权执行主任): “自治,(要理解)这个词对中共意味着什么,我们只要看一看西藏、新疆这些所谓的自治区就明白了。自治就意味着:不再拥有自己的文化,自己的语言,自己的历史,以所谓的宗教中国化的名义,剥夺信仰或修炼的权利。这是自相矛盾的。他们对自治的理解甚至延伸到前世。你知道,这个党目前正在设法控制轮回转世。因此他们也试图给人强加一个‘中国人’的概念。什么样的中国人呢?哦,就是习近平‘中国梦’之下的中国人的概念,中国人的含义。但是,从历史、语言和文化上来讲,香港人是非常复杂的。我认为香港民众在讨论著‘什么是香港人’。香港人是不是也算中国人。是这个意思吗?我认为,‘香港人’意味着自由,意味着以民主的方式做出决定的权利,意味着我们今天所拥有的。这与共产党的DNA及其自治的概念是绝对对立的,因为共产党统治下不存在自治。”

Sharon Hom: “Autonomy, (to understand) what it means for the Communist Party is we only need to look at the so-called autonomous regions in Tibet and Xinjiang. What autonomy means is: no cultural, no language, no history, no right to believe or practice your faith under the sinicization of religion, which is an oxymoron. And their understanding of autonomy even extends to past life. As you know, the party is trying to now control reincarnation. So they also tried to impose a notion of Chinese-ness. What kind of Chinese-ness? Well, Xi Jinping’s notion of Chinese-ness under the Chinese dream and what is Chinese. But Hong Kongers are quite complex as a history and language and culture. And I think Hong Kongers are going, and are negotiating what it means to be a Hong Konger. Whether it includes being a Chinese. Does it mean that? And I think that’s what it means to be free, the right to decide and determine in this complex way, what does it mean to be who we are. And that is absolutely antithetical to the DNA of the communist party and its notion of autonomy because it doesn’t exist.” 

他们向美国国会及行政当局中国委员会提出的核心要求是:希望美国国会通过《2019香港人权与民主法案》。

Their core demand presented before the Congressional-Executive Commission on China is for the US congress to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019.

黄之锋(香港众志秘书长):“联席主席卢比奥最近在文章中写道:根据美国法律,香港的特殊地位取决于其是否能维持单独关税区地位。北京不能一方面利用香港在世界上的地位来获取经济利益,一方面又消除我们的社会政治特性,不能两头都占。这是《香港人权与民主法案》得到香港公民社会广泛支持的最重要的原因。 ”

Joshua Wong: “Co-Chairman Rubio is also right for recently writing thatHong Kong’s special status, under American law, depends on the city being treated as a separate customs area’, Beijing shouldn’t have it both ways, reaping all the economic benefits of Hong Kong’s standing in the world while eradicating our socio-political identity. This is the most important reason why the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act enjoys the broad support of Hong Kong’s civil society, a point which I want every member of Congress to take note. ” 

对这些香港人来说,他们推动这项立法的原因很简单:除此之外,别无它法。 过去三个半月以来,香港政府和真正掌握控制权的中共领导层一直无视数百万香港人的声音。

To these Hongkongers, the reason they’re pushing for this legislation is simply that nothing else has worked. The Hong Kong government and the Communist Party leadership, which is really in control, has ignored the voice of millions of Hong Kong people for the past three and-a-half months. 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“美国政府应该帮助香港人民获得决定他们未来的权力。因此,我们敦促美国国会通过《香港人权与民主法案》,将目前的制裁名单扩大到所有侵犯我们人权的人。美国政府不应该承认香港的特殊地位。美国必须发出一个强烈的信号,如果香港失去自治权,美国应取消这一特殊地位,以便向中国施压。否则,中国政府将会继续利用香港作为一个自治区的国际社会地位,但掏空我们的自由价值观。有了这样一个明确的法案,这也表明美国将不再容忍极权主义。香港人民将竭尽全力,采取一切可能的措施来为实现民主和自由而奋斗。”

Sunny Cheung: “The US government should help HK people to have the right to decide our future. Therefore, we urge the US Congress to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, to expand the current sanction list to all individuals who infringe our human rights. The US government should not acknowledge the special status of Hong Kong. The US must send a strong signal that this special status should be cancelled if HK lost its autonomy in order to put pressure on China. Otherwise, China will keep taking advantage of Hong Kong as an international society but hollow out our liberal values. With such an assertive policy, it’s demonstrated that America will no longer tolerate totalitarianism. Hong Kong people will take every step with the last inch of our effort to fight for democracy and freedom.”

美国听证会后,北京迅速做出了回应。 外交部发言人耿爽警告美国不得支持示威者。

Beijing responded swiftly after the hearing. Foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang warned against the U.S. effort to back the protestors.  

耿爽:“同时,我们需要警告在外国支持下试图扰乱香港、从事反华活动的某些人,他们的一切努力都是徒劳的,注定要失败的。”

“At the same time, we have to warn certain people, who engage in anti-China activities in order to disrupt Hong Kong with foreign support, that all their efforts are futile and destined to fail.”  

周三,香港政府还发表一项声明,为员警对抗议活动的处置进行辩护, 并称反送中活动人士的指控“系严重事件,且毫无事实根据。

The Hong Kong government also issued a statement on Wednesday defending the police handling of the protest as being restrained and rejecting the activists’ allegations as “serious and unfounded”. 

参加听证会的香港民主人士在纽约和华盛顿特区安排的行程非常紧凑,其中包括受邀参加由共产主义受难者纪念基金会举办的香港人权论坛,以及全球台湾研究所举办的电影放映会。

The group had a packed schedule touring New York and Washington DC, including an invitation to the Hong Kong Human Rights Forum organized by the Victims of Communism Foundation and an invitation to a film screening by the Global Taiwan Institute. 

接下来是对香港学生领袖张崑阳的采访。

Coming up, an interview with Hong Kong student leader Sunny Cheung. 

张崑阳是香港大专学界国际事务代表团的发言人。 他是9月17日在美国国会及行政当局中国委员会作证的证人之一。在他访问华盛顿期间,我有机会对他进行了采访。

Sunny Cheung is the spokesperson of the Hong Kong Higher Education International Affairs Delegation. He was one of the witnesses that testified in front of the Congressional-Executive China Committee on September 17. I had the opportunity to interview him during his trip to Washington DC.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“ 非常感谢!对这次访问而言,你们所有人都在强调你们希望美国政府通过《香港人权与民主法案》。 我想知道法案中的哪一部分对您来说最为重要?”

Simone:“ All right. Thank you so much. So for this trip, all of you emphasized that you want the US government to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. I want to know which part of the act is most important to you?”

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我认为,制裁名单实际上为美国政府提供了一个可以监督香港局势的、非常有效的机制。 尤其我们知道香港许多官员确实严重破坏了、侵犯了香港的人权状况,这种情况逐渐演变成香港的这场人道主义危机。 而且根据该法案,如果美国政府将制裁作为一种机制,将会非常有效让那些侵犯人权的官员承担责任,对香港人来说这非常令人鼓舞。”

Sunny:“I think the sanction list actually provides a very effective mechanism to the US government (who can then) try to monitor the situation in Hong Kong. Especially, we know that many Hong Kong officials, they really grossly undermine and violate the human rights situation in Hong Kong and this gradually becomes a humanitarian crisis in Hong Kong. And by this bill, if the US government can use this sanction as a mechanism to try to hold them accountable it will be very effective and very encouraging for Hong Kong people.”

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“该法案中还有一个非常有争议的部分,就是要求美国的国务院、国务卿每年审查香港的状况。 因此,如果香港未能通过审核,其特殊地位则可能被撤销。 对此您有何想法?”

Simone:   There is also a very controversial part of this bill and it is the one that requires the State Department, the Secretary of State to review the status of Hong Kong every year. So if Hong Kong doesn’t pass the review the special status might be revoked. So what is your thinking of that? 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我明确认为,如果中国政府继续操控香港的特殊地位,我认为美国政府应积极考虑停止承认香港的特殊地位。因为他们只有这样做,才能对中国政府施加巨大的压力。 我们知道,过去几年来中国政府试图操纵香港,将其作为世界自由体系留的一个后门,与伊朗、朝鲜进行许多秘密的非法交易,这显然违反了联合国许多武器禁运协议。 当中国利用香港与伊朗交易时,这同样也违反了美国国务院的禁令,损害了美国人的利益。因为如此,我们有理由关注美国国务院的下一步行动。 他们是否会通过废除香港的特殊地位,来阻止中国利用香港来伤害自由世界各国。”

Sunny: “I definitely think if the special status of Hong Kong is continually manipulated by the Chinese government, I think the US government should actively consider to abolish their recognition of our Hong Kong special status. Because only if they do so and then actually they can try to give a very immense pressure on the Chinese government. We know that in previous years, the Chinese government tried to manipulate Hong Kong as the back door of the world liberal system, to do many illegal trading under the table with Iran and North Korea and this trading apparently violates many weapon embargoes under the United Nations. And when China uses Hong Kong to do trade with Iran, this also violates the order from the Department of State in the US and this undermines and harms the interest of the Americans. That’s why actually, it makes sense to see that if the Department of State in the United States, they really considered to abolish the recognition of Hong Kong Special Status in order to stop China from using Hong Kong to harm the free world countries.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“ 有一件事情我一直想了解你们的真实感受。 这对中共来说是一个重大的打击,但同时也会让香港很受伤。对吧?你们抗争的目的,不就是为了香港的利益吗?自由等等这类的东西? 如果美国撤销这一地位,即特别地位,香港将变成仅仅是个普通城市,就像中国大陆的某个城市一样。 您想过这件事情吗?”

Simone:   “There’s one part I have always been, you know, just wanting to know your real feelings about this. It is a big blow to the communist party but it will also hurt Hong Kong very much, right? Isn’t this what you have fought for? Freedom and stuff? If the US revokes the status, the special status, Hong Kong will be just another city,Like another city in mainland China. Have you thought of that?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“有时你要有所追求,就必须有所牺牲。 我的意思是,说白了,我们的目标是不是仅仅局限于为了香港的自由而抗争呢。 我们的抗争也是为了要在全中国伸张正义。 我们愿意为全球遏制中国而战,努力与中国对抗。如果这是我们的最终目标,那么我认为,为了打击中国政府,香港人敦促世界,同时也敦促美国政府撤销香港的特殊地位,就很合情合理了。”

Sunny: “Sometimes you fight for something you have to sacrifice something. I mean after all, if our aim is not just limited to fighting for the freedom in Hong Kong. We also fight for justice in China. We are willing to fight for a very global containment. Try to against China. If this is the ultimate aim for us and then I thinks its very reasonable for Hong Kong people to urge the world and also to urge the US government to abolish the status of Hong Kong in order to harm the Chinese government.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“因此,换句话说,所有香港人都充分明白《人权与民主法案》可能导致的种种后果。如果通过这样一个法案,就可能意味着香港的特殊地位不保。对此你们一清二楚。但你们依然支持。”

Simone:   “So, in other words, all the Hong Kong people are fully aware of the consequences of this Human Rights and Democracy Act. Passing this act may mean the Hong Kong Special Status may be revoked. You are fully aware of that. And you support it.” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我想提一下,如果香港政府试图侵犯人权,当然,这些人都会受到制裁。 而且我认为个人受到制裁,并不意味着香港的整个特殊地位将会被撤销。 我想指出的是:如果中国政府试图操控香港,如果从长远来看这种情况日益恶化,那就不仅仅是通过《人权与民主法案》的问题了,而是要废除1992年《香港政策法》的问题了。 只有这样做,实际上,这样一来确实可以震慑香港政府和中国政府。”

Sunny: “I want to mention that if the Hong Kong government tries to violate human rights, of course, those individuals will be sanctioned. And I think individuals being sanctioned does not mean that the whole Special Status of Hong Kong will be revoked. What I want to point out is that if the Chinese Government try to manipulate Hong Kong and if this situation worsens in the long run, and its not just about passing the Human Rights and Democracy Act, it’s about abolishing the Hong Kong policy act in 1992. Only by doing so…actually this can really frighten the Hong Kong and Chinese government.”

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“比如这一法案刚刚启动的时候,当时您的想法是什么?”

Simone: “ Changed, like at first when this bill was introduced what were your thoughts?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我的意思是说香港发生的事,之前谁也没有料到。我是说几个月前,有100万人上街游行,再后来,我们知道,100万人上街,那场面相当壮观!但是大家都没有想到这场运动会持续这么长的时间。这一次香港人真的非常坚定,谁也没想到。但是我们知道,美国政府推出这项法案时机可谓恰到好处,只有通过这项法案,才能给香港政府施加压力。您看,昨天美国国会及行政当局中国委员会听证会结束后,我在那儿发了言,黄之锋发了言,甚至何韵诗也发了言。然后,香港政府,我想他们是今天早上,立即发表了一份声明,试图表明我们对香港政府的指控是不正确的,而且表明(香港政府)仍然在维护香港人的政治权利。看明白了吧。我的意思是我们在美国国会听证会上讲了话,实际上这让香港政府感到害怕。他们真的很害怕会通过(这项法案)。这说明我们做对了。”

Sunny: “ I mean, no one could have anticipated what happened in Hong Kong. I mean a few months ago when there was 1 million people marching on the street and then…We know 1 million people marching on the street is quite impressive, but we didn’t anticipate the movement will continue for so long. And this time Hong Kong people are really quite determined and no one can possibly anticipate it. But we know that it’s the right timing for the American government to have this bill and only with this bill, this can pressurize the Hong Kong government. You can see that after yesterday’s hearing in the CECC, I spoke there and Joshua spoke there and even Denise Ho spoke there. And then the Hong Kong government, I think this morning they immediately, issued a statement, try to say that our accusation against the Hong Kong government is not correct, (and that the) the Hong Kong government still protects the political rights of Hong Kong individuals. You can see that. I mean we spoke in a US Congress hearing. Actually that scares the Hong Kong government. They’re really scared that the (bill) will be passed and that means we are doing the right thing.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“关于《香港人权与民主法案》,我知道你们所有的人都支持。 你们想要美国国会通过这个法案。 您能代表香港上街的200万民众吗? 您认为他们也支持这一法案吗?”

Simone:“ Regarding the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, I know all of you support it. You want the US Congress to pass it. Can you represent the 2 million people on the Hong Kong Street? Do you think they support this as well?”  

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“这是一场没有领导人的运动,所以我无法表上街的200万民众。 但是在我看来,而且我相信香港确实有很多人支持美国政府,或者所有自由世界的国家采取行动,来支持香港并试图遏制中国政府。 我认为这也是共识。 无论是香港政府,还是香港人民,真的都希望能够获得自由世界国家的支持,这是一个共识。我们希望得到自由世界国家的支持。”

Sunny:  This is a leaderless movement so I cannot represent two million people on the street. But what I believe…and I believe that Hong Kong do have a lot of people that supports the US government, or all the free world countries to do something to support Hong Kong and try to contain the Chinese government. And I also think that this is a consensus. This is a consensus that Hong Kong government or Hong Kong people do want the support from the free world countries. This is a consensus. We want the support from the free world countries. 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“《香港人权与民主法案》之后,下一步就是《香港政策法》。 那么,您像刚才您所说,您甚至支持撤销该法案,是吗?”

Simone: “ Next step after the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, the next step is Hong Kong Policy Act. So you Just now you said, you even support that act to be revoked, right?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我是说,如果中国政府继续操控香港的话,我想,实际上,昨天我在会上发言时,我也提到了,如果中国政府继续操控香港,美国政府应立即撤销《香港政策法案》,制裁整个香港实体,意在给中国政府施压。”

Sunny:“I mean if the Chinese government, they keep continuing to manipulate Hong Kong and I think… Actually yesterday when I spoke in the CECC, my speech also mentioned that if the Chinese government continues to manipulate Hong Kong, the US government should immediately abolish the Hong Kong Policy Act to try to sanction the whole Hong Kong entity in order to pressurize the Chinese government.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“ 在中共仍统治中国大陆的情况下,您认为香港会获得真正的自由吗? ”

Simone:   “So do you think Hong Kong can obtain true freedom? With the communist party still ruling mainland China?”

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“没有什么不可能, 谁也没有料到苏联会解体, 谁也没有料到第一次世界大战会发生。这些政治,我是说我们人类的历史,我们抗争,我们征服, 我们坚持自己今天在做的,然后奇迹可能就会发生。”

Sunny:  Nothing is impossible. I mean, no one can anticipate the collapse of Soviet Union. No one could possibly expect the occurrence of World War 1. These politics, I mean our human history, we fight, we conquer. We insist for what we are doing and maybe then miracles will happen.”

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“ 您认为香港政府真的会宣布香港处于紧急状态吗?有多大的可能性?”

Simone:   “Do you think the Hong Kong government will really declare a state of emergency in Hong Kong? How big of a possibility is there?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“如果我理解正确的话, 紧急状态法凌驾于香港政府之上,可以干很多事情。 我指包括关闭机场;关闭所有公共通讯,他们想关闭多长时间,就关闭多长时间。 这就是为什么这部法律,这部紧急状态法的确与殖民地时期或古代的戒严令非常相似的原因。在独裁国家中此类事情一再发生。 如果香港政府,如果他们不能真正的部署解放军,那么他们很有可能在香港社会实施《紧急状态法》,以控制我们。”

Sunny: “If I am correct, actually the emergency law overrides the Hong Kong government to do many things. I mean including, trying to shut down the airport, try to shut down all the public communication as long as they wish. And that’s why this law, this emergency law indeed is something very similar to those colonial or ancient martial law, which happen again and again in those autocratic countries. If Hong Kong government, if they cannot really deploy PLA then it’s very likely for them to use the Emergency Law to implement in Hong Kong society to get the control over us.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“所以您认为,他们很可能这么干?”

Simone:   “So you think it’s very likely that they will do that?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“是的。因为如果他们真的采用这部法律的话,实际上这倒不意味着他们会充分实施这部法律,但是至少他们仍可以做一些对我们公民社会非常有害的事情。 就像他们可以真的立一部法,禁止人们戴口罩,有紧急状态法就可以办成这件事了。”

Sunny:  “Yeah, because if they really apply the law…actually it doesn’t mean that they will…they will fully practice the law but at least they can still do something which is very detrimental to our civil society. Like they can actually legislate a bill about prohibiting people wearing mask and this can be done by the emergency law.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“这个影响会有多大? 我的意思是说,从心理上讲,是指某个重要的基准点,如果他们颁布了紧急状态法,那么美国政府就真的会做出什么举动,也许撤销《香港政策法案》吗? 您认为会达到那个程度吗?”

Simone:   “How big of an impact is that? I mean psychologically is that some important benchmark that if they issued the emergency law then the US government should really do something, maybe revoke the Hong Kong Policy Act? Do you think that will amount to that degree?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“这取决于我们的需求了。如果我们与美国国会的参议员和众议员们交流(并进行解释),我们觉得,如果香港政府真的实施《紧急状态法》,我想美国国会真的应该废除《香港政策法》。 这取决于我们告诉他们什么。 如果我们确实提出这一要求,他们会积极考虑的。”

Sunny: “ It depends on our demand. I mean, if we talked to those senators and congressman in the US Congress (and explained) that we feel like if Hong Kong government really dares to implement the Emergency Law then I think the US congress should really abolish the Hong Kong Policy Act. It depends on what we tell them. If we really making this demand and I think they will actively consider.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“ 你们有五个诉求,五个要求,对吧? 你们怎么个叫法?如果中共继续统治中国?”

Simone:   “Okay. So last question. I just want to ask you again. So you have five pursuits, five requirements right? How do you call it? Good. Sushio Five requirements, five demands, right? So how likely do you think those five demands will be met if the communist party of China is still ruling?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我们决心很大。 我是说,连苏联都会在一天之内解体, 中共为什么不能对我们让步?是的,我们相信人民力量。 我们相信人类历史的遗产。 当开明的思想和民主总是占上风时,当独裁统治以及恐怖主义经常失败时,是的,我真心希望这次香港人能得到我们自己应得的东西。 我们试图改变五年前雨伞运动的结果,那一次我们失败了, 我们不会再失败了。”

Sunny: “We are quite determined. I mean, even the Soviet Union could fall within one day. Why communist party could not make a concession to us? Yeah. We believe in people power. We believe in the legacy of our human history. When liberalism and democracy always prevail. When dictatorship and often terrorism always fail. And Yeah. I do hope that Hong Kong People this time can obtain what we deserve. We can try to change the consequences five years ago in the umbrella movement. We failed that time. We won’t fail again.” 

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“ 我只是想了解香港人民的决心。你知道,我们已经非常仔细地观察过这一过程了,关注香港人民情况怎么样了。在某个时间点,我想两三个月前吧,也许是一个月前,当时示威运动在逐渐消退。 所以人们就在想:‘好了,你们怎么做,才能使这个示威成为一个长期的事呢。’那么您如何看待港人的决心? 如果长期示威,你们扛得住吗?”

Simone:   “Absolutely last question. I just want to know the determination of the Hong Kong people, you know, we have watched this process very closely… Paying attention to how Hong Kong people are performing and stuff. And at some point, I think a couple months ago, maybe a month ago, when the movement the demonstration was dying down a little bit. So people are thinking: “Okay, how do you make things…make this demonstration a long-term thing." So how would you describe the determination of the Hong Kong people? Can you sustain a long-term demonstration?” 

张崑阳(香港大专学界国际事务代表团发言人):“我们已经扛住了。 100天都过去了,我们已经扛住了。 我们已经向世界展示了我们的决心是怎样的坚定。 抗议活动不会自然消亡。我相信,短期内除非香港政府或中国政府作出真正的、很大的让步,否则抗议是平息不下去的。”

Sunny:  We already did. After 100 days, we already did. We already demonstrated to the world that we are so determined. And the protest will not die down naturally, In the short term, I believe, unless the government or the Chinese government, they really make a considerable concession. It would not die down. ”

 

End

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Producer:Simone Gao

Writer:Simone Gao

Editors:Fiona Yang, Julian Kuo    

Narrator: Simone Gao

Translation: Cindy  Zhang, John Meng,Linda Du, TungTung, Maureen Mou, Greg Yang, Frank Yue

Transcription: James Battaglini, Jesse Beatty

Special Effects:Harrison Sun

Assistant producer:Bin Tang, Merry Jiang 

Feedback: ssgx@ntdtv.com 

New Tang Dynasty Television

Zooming In

September, 2019 

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